Networking is no doubt important to the continued success of your business as you need to be able to create connections at meet and greets and conferences to help generate business and keep the referrals flowing.
Having a well thought out networking strategy could mean the difference between someone forgetting your name or business and leaving a long-lasting impression and building business connections.
In this episode I was joined by Edward Zia, from Excellence Above to discuss the best networking strategies. Edwards has spoken at, conducted, MCd and attended networking events each and every week for many years as well as encouraging clients how to network better. So, there is no one better to discuss this topic than Edward
Edward also encourages people to be themselves when networking so be prepared as he proudly admits he can be polarising sometimes. Love him or hate him he’s generous with great information and tips and this was one of our best interviews for practical information on how to improve your marketing results.
The episode contained a discussion on:
- Benefits of Networking
- Get the Basics Right
- Don’t Overthink it
- Be Clear About What you Do
- Be Focused
- Once you’ve met Follow your Sales Process
- Keep track of Anyone you Meet in your CRM
- Continue to add value and Build Relationships
- Be Selective – Focus on who you want to work with
- Don’t Talk to Friends
- Measure Afterwards
- Make sure Networking is part of your Marketing
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If you want more information from the podcast check out the transcript below.
Welcome to marketing show. The 20 to 30 minutes of marketing magic that will help you connect the dots with all the digital, social and old school marketing and sales options available today. Our aim is to give you practical, effective tips and ideas so your business or professional practise can get more prospects and nurture those prospects to becoming long term customers.
The show is sponsored by the Marketing Strategy Company who help B2B organisations develop a winning marketing strategies and sales and marketing automation systems. To turn their sales and marketing efforts into new customers and dollars through their marketing. Check out the Marketing Strategy planning and marketing services at the marketingstrategy.co. That’s the marketing strategy.co.
Kym Heffernan: Hi and welcome to today’s episode of the Marketing Strategy show. The Marketing Strategy Show is all about getting the right marketing for your business. Now in our Marketing Strategy episodes we usually pull back the curtain with an expert on specialised topic. Today is a little bit different.
Kym Heffernan: In all our episodes to date, we’ve focused on one or more topics or stages in the marketing and sales process, which of course is getting more leads .Converting them into customers or building long term relationships. Today I’ve got a special guest. A guy named Edward Zia, who’s a marketing mentor and coach.
Kym Heffernan: Edward and I are going to have a bit of a discussion backwards and forwards about how marketing has changed and the things you need to think about with marketing. So, not just a particular marketing topic, marketing in general and what happening today. Edward are you there?
Edward Zia: I am here Kym. It’s an honour to be with you on this wonderful podcast.
Kym Heffernan: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. It’s wonderful to have you on board. I’ve watched what you do and you have a very big presence in the marketing world. Everyone I know speaks very highly of you. You’re very sought after speaker and MC certainly.
Edward Zia: Thank you Kym, it’s an absolute honour and I have to say for the sake of our glorious audience as well. I’ve known you for years and you are a great guy who’s very smart.
Kym Heffernan: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Enough of the pleasantries for each other, let’s jump into it. We might actually start though with a bit of the Edward Zia story for our audience and those who don’t know you.
Edward Zia: Yeah. Absolutely. So pretty much I’m a marketing mentor and coach. I speak at a lot of events. I get involved quite actively in the community and I originally come from an actual government and military background from a very long time ago. Believe it or not. I actually … when I was 19 I joined the army as a combat engineer and then I wound up in drug enforcement helping at the federal government. So that’s [inaudible 00:02:34].
Kym Heffernan: Right.
Edward Zia: A very long story short, I left there, ended up going into corporate having a very successful marketing career. When I turned 30 around about then is when I started my business as a marketing mentor and coach. Awesome Kym.
Kym Heffernan: Does that mean it when you got the 30 year itch? Is that what it was? To make you go and start your own business?
Edward Zia: I like it. I’ve never had anyone put it like that, but that was actually it. Very well put. I’ve never heard of it that way but on this one-
Kym Heffernan: An early midlife crisis perhaps.
Edward Zia: Oh yeah because I’m actually 40 now and I don’t have a midlife crisis, but I totally had one then and it was awesome.
Kym Heffernan: Not that Fantastic. And so I guess in what you do and you come across lots of different businesses, large and small, so what sort of clients do` you work with? Everyone from small businesses right through to medium sized manufacturers knows that.
Edward Zia: Well, it’s actually, this is an interesting one. I actually work with entrepreneurs who are busy starting in their own business, right through to actually doing workshops and training for massive corporates. So I actually have the whole spectrum of people that I work with in our marketing and coaching abilities.
Kym Heffernan: Right. So I guess the reason I actually am to let people know that you’re not just focused on one area of marketing. I mean it, you make it this…if people meet you at a networking event, whenever I meet someone at a network event What sort of marketing do you do? Do you ever get that question?
Edward Zia: All the time? And I just say coaching and training and education.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah, exactly. For us it’s starting with strategy first. That’s why we’re the marketing strategy company, right? So, we start with that first and get the basics right rather than focus on one tactic. I just want to talk to you first of all of about… We had an interesting discussion with the listeners benefit before this interview started about Edwards approach and I think we’ve got the same approach with trying things before we actually mentioned the client.
Kym Heffernan: One of the things we spoke about was networking and running events and I think in today’s digital world, like a lot of people forget about the face to face context. So tell me a bit about how you’ve used networking for your own business but then I guess, for your clients as well and running a small event.
Edward Zia: Oh, great question. So, with a business networking, I’m obviously really into it. To really start and get into my business networking journey, I actually have to give a shout out to one of my own mentors. He is a great British guy with the name Stephen Thomas and he actually taught me business networking selling from his viewpoint. That allowed me to go straight to the top at New South Wales Business Chamber.
Edward Zia: It was incredible and it answers that. Basically it’s this is that, I love online. I love Linkedin or Facebook and all that great stuff. It’s business networking though that I used originally to build my reputation, my huge base of clients. For clients, I actually teach them business networking so they get clients fast and build really good friendships and referral partners.
Kym Heffernan: What do you think are you thinking are the things you see people doing? Let’s take it, doing right first of all in business networking, that will actually help do that. What do you need to do to prepare for it?
Edward Zia: All of it. So maybe this is what a smart person or would do with it, even if they start their business tomorrow, right? But what a smart person will do with business networking is, are the basics, right? They’ve got like a decent Linkedin page. They’ve got a Facebook page if they are on Facebook. They’ve got a good website.
Edward Zia: They’ve got good business cards and their sales processes is all ready. So they know what they’re doing. What they’ll do is just that they’ll … let’s say they join New South Wales Business Chamber or whatever the case may be. What they’ll do isn’t get in it, they’ll take their time, there’ll be relationships. They’ll make new friends every time, meet people for coffee and lunches and they’ll just gradually build relationships one by one and make themselves more powerful and present.
Kym Heffernan: Do you recommend the clients before they attend New South Wales Chamber event or a local Business Chamber or be [inaudible 00:06:32] whatever they’re going to, what sort of do you teach them as the important part that they need to think about, okay, certain intention, today I’m gonna meet x, how do I actually go about doing that?
Edward Zia: Well, what I tend to do is I take a very opposite sort of viewpoint.
Kym Heffernan: Okay.
Edward Zia: I just throw people in the lion’s den and give them a sword and just tell them to go figure it out. That’s been the basis of my … What I actually found with business networking is the opposite tends to be true, because if you over train someone in business networking and then they tend to make it bigger than what it is in their mind, where I’m sort of like the opposite. I’m like, just go along, just listen to people, just make friends and you’ll learn it that way. So, I’ll use this as an analogy for business networking.
Kym Heffernan: I like it. I like it because-
Edward Zia: I’ll ask you this question, what is the best way of getting good at running?
Kym Heffernan: Run.
Edward Zia: Yeah. Okay. That’s the answer. [inaudible 00:07:30] with them.
Kym Heffernan: It’s not going to the sport shop, buying the best running shoes, getting the best socks, the best shirt and the best shorts. Getting [inaudible 00:07:39] ready and warming up half an hour. It’s getting out there and practising , right?
Edward Zia: Yeah. Exactly. To me what’s really important is … I’ll use Sydney as an example. Sydney is a tough city, right? You know that Kym you’re a smart guy.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah. Absolutely.
Edward Zia: Sydney is not a place for the weak of heart, right? I’m the opposite. I tend to just throw people straight in there and I’m like, you’ve got to sink or swim, buddy. You gotta get with it, right? This is Sydney. It’s one of the world’s top international cities.
Edward Zia: You got to perform and you just can’t sit there and wrap yourself in cotton wool and pretend everything’s going to be great. You got to dive in and you’ve got to win. You got to take over the place and you got to get smart very quickly.
Kym Heffernan: And essentially I think you made the point make friends. I see a lot of people go too far both ways. I guess they become too over salesy. There’s nothing worse rather than networking event or they become so passive, you don’t really know what they do.
Edward Zia: Yeah, and to me the trick, it’s a good point that you make it. This is to me what’s very important in business networking. You got to be very direct as to what you do for a living, so people get what you’re about. Right? So, for example, if someone … and so you’ve got to have a very direct pitch in terms of, so Ed, what do you do now? I’m a marketing mentor and coach. What you do Kym? I’m a marketing strategist and I run an agency or whatever your pitch is, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: Step one is you got to be direct so people can get what you’re all about. To me, people either want to talk to you or they don’t, right? Let’s say someone doesn’t like you, they just wouldn’t talk to you. I’ll just move on. The idea is, it’s just being direct with people. Being straight up as to what you’re doing. What invariably shall happen is people will just talk to you.
Edward Zia: If they’re interested in what you do, they’ll talk to you. They’ll become friends and what you do is you meet them for coffee or lunch. You talked to him one on one and that’s when you really start getting clients and doing all the business deals and that sort of thing.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah, cause nothing’s going to happen in a five minute conversation with 50 other people and someone speaking in the background, right so?
Edward Zia: Absolutely no. But the trick is … I suppose the beauty of it all is though is the idea of to me of a networking event. This is exactly the way my mentor train me Stephan, which is brilliant was that again, you get to know each other, you make friends. Then from there if things gonna work out, then you go and meet for coffee or lunch and that’s when the actual businesses done.
Kym Heffernan: Right. So, that second step I think the step it’s a really important step, that I think a number of people miss out on. Now meet someone and maybe even get the business card and that’s it.
Edward Zia: Yeah. Crazy. Which is just dumb. I’ll give an example and I’ll put some numbers into it just to make it … just to give it a smart intelligent, right? Let’s say, well tomorrow night is actually as we do this podcast, tomorrow night is actually New South Wales Business Chamber, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: I’ll give you an example of a default [inaudible 00:10:25] and New South Wales Business Chamber. Forget for the moment that I’m on the team there, right? And I’m just, Lets say I’m just networking just to keep it easy, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yep
Edward Zia: What I’ll do is I’ll meet about 10 people we’ll swap cards and what I’ll do is I’ll let everyone on Facebook and what I’ll do though is in the morning, is that let’s say I’m at the networking event and people know me and someone turns around and here is where you got to be smart. Let’s say someone walks up to him and says, hi Ed I’m interested in hiring you. I need some help with my sales and marketing, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: You don’t need to have a PhD in physics to know that, that’s a lead and you should follow that person up. Yeah. Right.it’s like, hi Ed, I want to hire you and give you the money, that’s called a lead. Obviously I might book a meeting with them on the spot or I might call them first thing in the morning saying, Hey Robert, great seeing you yesterday, do you want a book and a coffee or lunch or am I just doing it on the spot Right?
Kym Heffernan: Yep
Edward Zia: = Yeah, that’s pretty much it. So I’ll give you an example, this is the way numbers work. If I, let’s say I go to an event and I meet 10 people, right, what will happen is this two people will hate my guts and just not like me. Right? They just won’t like me, and we just won’t get along right? You know what I mean right?
Kym Heffernan: Yep absolutely
Edward Zia: Say well, it’s been at least and I’m some kind of racist and I don’t like it or whatever…but if someone doesn’t like me it means they are racist. That’s the only explanation. Right?
Kym Heffernan: He is an anti-marketer. He is one of those horrible anti-marketer people.
Edward Zia: Exactly. Out of 10 people two people will hate my guts, which is fine. Two people we’ll just click and we’ll just be best of pals instantly, right? And they’ll turn into meetings. They’ll say … and it could be as direct as, hi I don’t want to give you money and hire you or hide it, we just met up for coffee or lunch and let’s just be friends awesome. It’s those two people and everyone else in between. It’s those two people are the ones that I’m preoccupied with.
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: So my attitude is let’s say I meet someone who’s addicted to me, right? And they’re not very nice or whatever. In a way I’m not to connect with them. I actually want them to go away and leave me alone. Right. I’m interested in the people I really get along with. That’s what I’m really after.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah, because people that don’t they’re just going to take too much time, attention and energy right?
Edward Zia: Yes
Kym Heffernan: Chasing ghosts as I call it, trying to get into their the business.
Edward Zia: Yep.
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: And you be careful because at times you have people…because I’m yeah…, I suppose in what I do as well is I’m fairly political as well, like I’m a member of the Liberal Party, I’m pro Trump and all that sort of thing.
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: Sometimes people will take me on politically and in a way you’ve got to not take the bait and ignore those people because you’re there to do business and not mess around.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah.
Edward Zia: So I be, I can be a nice guy and really fun and friendly, but when I’m pushed I can be as equally hard nosed as well, which is very important, especially in a crazy place like Sydney.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah, a 100%. So I think I’ve picked up on that, say i Just want to slow a bit more touch on the beginning. You said when you’re starting they would make for you your Linkedin page, a Facebook profile, a website and a something called a sales process.
Edward Zia: Yes.
Kym Heffernan: I see that missing in a number of people. So let’s explore the sale process a little bit more.
Edward Zia: Damn, you are a smart guy Kym. I’ve always liked you anyway. But there has always been a good reason why, like you’re a smart guy, clearly you’re a great guy.
Kym Heffernan: Because I mean, you really, you talk about that, but that’s the beginning of the sales process. Say leads out there. You’ve been there, spoken to someone now what do you do with them if you don’t have a process in place. How do you mentor your clients? Even in your own … let’s take your own business for start how do you manage-
Edward Zia: Please.
Kym Heffernan: [inaudible 00:13:59] to use a CRM. What do you do to manage your sales process?
Edward Zia: Oh, great question. The first thing is I’m not just talking, networking as an example, right? So networking-
Kym Heffernan: Yep, you gotta lead through networking again.
Edward Zia: Yes, let’s talk networking just to keep it simple from that viewpoint. So the first thing is obviously right. The first thing I’m obviously doing is, so I’m at a business chamber, I’m not, I’m working out who were the people I’m going to do business with right? That can mean many things that can mean someone who hires me as a client. Or it can mean someone who becomes a referral partner, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: It can actually mean a lot of different things, right? Which is really, really cool. Now, what the next step is, and this is what makes it really cool, right, is that I’m being very perceptive as to who are the people that are potentially leads right? Now as I work out who those people are leads I’ll then meet them one on one.
Edward Zia: I’ll then get to work with them and I’ll do things like this. I’ll connected with them on Facebook and linked in. I’ll stay, connect with the great people, i will follow them up. And as for my CRM, I use Microsoft 365 as my CRM and it’s awesome.
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: Yeah. So that’s how I keep my data, keep track of people, set reminders for speaking to people and all that of the thing which works out really well.
Kym Heffernan: And when this days having educational content is really important. What do you do in terms of ongoing content sharing with people? Do you share content with them or is it more just a connection to keep in touch?
Edward Zia: Oh No, What I tend to do is what I suppose on Linkedin, Facebook and through my email database obviously use mail chimp or send out regular weekly.
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: What I tend to do with content is I do a few one minute videos a day on Linkedin and Facebook. I might do a Linkedin, a Facebook live once or twice a day.
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: And I also do as well is I write blogs every day as well, so I’m always putting out lots of information through Linkedin and Facebook. So what happens is even if I’m connected to someone on Linkedin and Facebook, I’m actually putting out information all the time, which is really, really cool and that’s actually how I stayed connected with people. And so let’s say I just connect with someone on Linkedin and we never actually meet what the actual beauty of it is, is that, we’ll actually stay connected anyway. They’ll see all my content and that’s part of my whole warming and acquisition process.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah, a 100%. I think Linkedin can be a very effective tool, but I think the thing about what I say to people is if you think about Linkedin for business and Facebook for personal, not necessarily just for content, your Linkedin address stays with you for life, your email address changes depending on roles and all variety of things. So strategically having a connection with someone on Linkedin is very important.
Kym Heffernan: The same thing with Facebook.
Kym Heffernan: Very rarely does Facebook comtacts change. So those two pieces of content, are fantastic ways to stay in touch with people. But as interesting you said that, do you do different content for different channels?
Edward Zia: No. except for Facebook lives. Facebook lives is obviously Facebook only, right? So with the exception of Facebook live, I actually sit, share the same content on Facebook, Linkedin and Instagram. And it actually works really well, works incredibly well and what I do is, it’s very easy because I might do it… Let’s say I’m at New South Wales and I will do this by the way … Let’s say I’m at New South Wales Business Chamber and I take a bunch of selfies tomorrow, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: With people or take a quick video, I’ll just quickly share it from my phone to Facebook, Linkedin and Instagram and yeah, I’ll get thousands of users. That would be great.
Kym Heffernan: And couldn’t you do anything with those views. You look at the engagement with those and have a secondary follow up strategy.
Edward Zia: Yeah. What I do is ,the key thing I go for is I look at people who they either liked my posts or left comments. So let’s put up, let’s do it. I did this before, actually let’s do a video on Linkedin, you know, promoting my old marketing, got mentoring programmes right?
Kym Heffernan: Yup
Edward Zia: And let’s say someone leaves a comment and says, wow, this is really good. I don’t know them all at that person on Linkedin. And then I’ll send them a message saying hello. So I’ll start then speaking to that person directly to warm them up to a new customer or as my bait.
Kym Heffernan: So they go into your sales process, so instead of randomly posting things on Linkedin or Facebook or randomly sending out emails, you will get who engages with that content and then moving into federal lore that’s sales process or sales funnel.
Edward Zia: You said it was you think about any, I don’t know, you notice it’s a form of prequel. Let’s say I’m connected with someone on Linkedin, right? And let’s say they just don’t like me, right? Because know they’re racist or whatever, right? What might even happen is they might even look at my content and say, well, this guy’s some kind of lunatic.
Edward Zia: I don’t want to be connected to. In fact, I’m going to unfriend him. I’ve had that before. I’ve heard, because I share a lot of content on Linkedin and you’ve probably figured out my strategy. I’m a bit of a polarising character. No, not at all. Really. I deliberately polarised because ultimately this is the way I look at things.
Edward Zia: If I’m connected with someone on Linkedin, and they didn’t like me, I actually want them to unfriend me. I actually don’t want to be connected to them anymore, if you know what I mean. Right.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah because you don’t want negative comments backwards and forwards and people just having a go at you the whole time.
Edward Zia: Yes. I remember actually, I used to be such a weakling because whenever someone would unfriend me on Facebook and Linkedin, I’d be, oh my God, like end of the world. What’s wrong with me? And I’d go through all this mental stuff, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yeah yeah
Edward Zia: When I have my…If you hate me, please just unfriend me. I don’t even want to talk to you anymore. I’ve gone the other extreme now. Right.
Kym Heffernan: You don’t want all that negative energy around it.
Edward Zia: Oh, I’ll tell you what it’s been one of the most liberating experiences of my life because instead of being so like worried about what people think of me, it’s like a hi, and I hate you, awesome leave me alone. It’s just such. It’s just such a great feeling when you sort of develop that sense of maturity and I wish I-
Kym Heffernan: yeah.
Edward Zia: I wish I was like 10 years ago would’ve saved me a lot of time and stress. A hi and I hate you awesome Don’t, you know, like that, you know what I mean?
Kym Heffernan: I remember once reading a store, I forget who it was, it might have been Stephen Covey when he’s around.I met Stephen Covey I forget who it was that day when he was…he used to write books and … Wayne Dyer that’s who it was. Wayne Dyer [inaudible 00:20:09] it.
Edward Zia: Oh yeah. And for the record I love Stephen Covey. No one loves Stephen Covey more than I do. He’s a great guy.
Kym Heffernan: He’s a fantastic guy. But Wayne Dyer was saying he was..he got this really abusive letter after one of his books and he wrote back a reply with something a lot like It’s not exact, I’m sitting in the smallest room of the house. I was just print your letter. I’m a baptist Say that with the eject button, which I thought was just a wonderful heck of a reply.
Edward Zia: Yeah.It’s very important. And this is sales one on one. This is the sales guy and me speaking, not so much the marketer. Right? But to me what’s critical and your, and I don’t know you, but you’re a very smart guy Kym and you know this as well, is that a good salesperson does not sell to everyone. A good salesperson cuts through the chaff and focuses on the weak. That’s what a great salesperson does.
Kym Heffernan: Its easier said than done sometimes though is it except though. I mean, depending on your mood and when you’ve had a good day or bad day or something’s happening personally, it’s not always easy to switch off.is it? You Sometimes do take it to heart.
Edward Zia: And you’ve got to be fixed skin, especially in a place like Sydney because at times people can be very aggressive with you.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah very brutal. I mean, I don’t have many times I’ll send them an email [inaudible 00:21:25] and so why are you sending me this rubbish? What the fuck, just don’t read it.
Edward Zia: That is so mean man. It depends on your style-
Kym Heffernan: Unsubscribe. Please press the button.
Edward Zia: It depends on your style too as well because for example, I’m a Christian and I’m quite active in the church. I’m also a Trump supporter, right? And a member of the Liberal Party. So, what happens to me is I get a lot of people who don’t, even, they … No, you don’t get a seat at this chamber for example, because everyone’s about … Shame is everyone’s a bunch of right wingers, right? But, what will happen, this happens to me, not so much anymore.
Edward Zia: It’s a sort of fair to these, you know, these trash out of my life. But, what used to happen to me quite a lot, Kym, is that I get people who like that they don’t even know me, but they will just make judgments of me and then they’ll just treat me like, you know, just be dicks to me or something like that, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yeah. I’ve heard that comment made about other people as well. I mean, the Christian thing I said, well, who cares? That’s these personal beliefs. I mean, its business guys.
Edward Zia: It’s more lefties that do it. People on the right and business are really cool, but I still have a little problem of lefties always trashing me and what I believe and that sort of thing. Eventually I got all these people out of my life and it’s just been awesome. Then I thought I’d go the next mile and think I’m to go join the Liberal Party now and actually fight these people.
Edward Zia: It was awesome. It’s sort of like the wrath of Edward. It’s like, well I’m gonna use my political might against you guys. It was awesome.
Kym Heffernan: That’s a really interesting point you make because I see a lot of people and on social media particularly rallying against a cause and jumping on a bandwagon and about something or other. I think though that scares a lot of business off.
Kym Heffernan: They worry about if people do that I mean, I think that’s gonna happen as a matter of course, isn’t it? When you’re on social media and being public or publishing a blogger out there, you’re going to get people to criticise you. As you say you need to have a thick skin. So don’t hide behind, I don’t want to get on Facebook or I don’t want to get on Linkedin in case someone criticised me and I’ll look bad. It’s gonna happen.
Edward Zia: Yeah, and what, it’s your section so when you spoke about the lefties, like the social justice warriors and all the people. The Cultural Marxists and all those people that you know, their just trying, you know, they’re all in a political correctness and all that horrible stuff, right? You know the real authoritarians, right? With those sort of people as well is there’s actually a saying in business and it’s called get woke go broke. Have you heard that one?
Kym Heffernan: No I haven’t. [inaudible 00:23:44] so I was at good woke …
Edward Zia: Get woke, go broke.
Kym Heffernan: No. Tell me.
Edward Zia: [inaudible 00:23:50] I’ve been studying this a lot lately and now this really came out during especially the Trump campaign, right? Basically the culture was in the US, but what get broke go woke means, this is very relevant to marketing and business.
Edward Zia: Get woke go broke roughly means this, it’s basically whenever companies, and this happened to Disney big time, right? Happen to Disney’s example, especially the Star Wars films. But what happens in this is that, when companies sort of cow tailed to like the social justice warriors and the crazy lefties, what happens is that they end up losing a lot of customers. Right? You know, the whole political correctness[inaudible 00:24:29] movement.
Kym Heffernan: Absolutely. Yeah, okay.
Edward Zia: Have you like for example-
Kym Heffernan: The vocal minority basically, I guess.
Edward Zia: Yeah. A good example is the latest Ghostbusters film, right? Do you ever see that?
Kym Heffernan: No. I haven’t see the latest one. I saw the original but not the latest one.
Edward Zia: The last Ghostbusters film was a flop. They lost like a 100000000$ or something like that. It was actually a very racist and sexist film, right?
Kym Heffernan: Right.
Edward Zia: But it was all based in lefty political correctness. The film … Everyone hated it and the studio I think it was Paramount lost a lot of … I think it was Sony actually lost a lot of money right?
Kym Heffernan: Right.
Edward Zia: The simple … and that’s an example of get woke go broke. The point is, is that whenever companies curtail to like the lefties and people that don’t like them, they end up ignoring their fans and losing a lot of money. So again, anyone who’s ever bent the knee to political correctness, they always get punished very badly.
Kym Heffernan: I guess it comes back to … you agree with me as well. It comes back to who is your target audience, doesn’t it?
Edward Zia: Yes.
Kym Heffernan: If you’re targeting audience is these lefties, well you gotta cater to them, if they’re not, why are you catering to them?
Edward Zia: Yeah, and that’s actually a case in point talking politics. I see a lot of internal poll reports that the public don’t see as being in the party right?
Kym Heffernan: Yeah.
Edward Zia: I’ll tell you now a good example is I’ll compare liberal as an Australian liberal, right wing versus labour. If you look labour, for example, right? Like in liberal, if you look at the liberal voting base everyone sort of gets along. So in the Liberal Party of Australia, you might get someone who’s like a working class guy.
Edward Zia: You might get someone who’s Asian, Indian and someone who’s gay, someone who’s a Christian at this. Everyone sort of gets the voting base and liberal all get along right?
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: But in labour it’s not like that. You have like this lefty, progressive social justice warrior fringe, and then you have on one sense. Then on the other side, you then have the sort of normal people. What happens in the Labour Party and where there in a lot of trouble right now is, everyone’s not getting along, right?
Edward Zia: Their own voting base isn’t getting along. When you’re short and sort of bends the knee to the radical left, he ends up alienating a lot of his base so the problem of labour is that they’re actually confusing the target market. Hence why they’re without having political trouble. The reason why I bring up politics is that I always look at politics as a means of understanding business.
Edward Zia: They really relate and so overlap and you can see, you got to know exactly who your target market is, who you’re after. Then you just go after those people and it’s awesome. I couldn’t think of anything [inaudible 00:26:59].
Kym Heffernan: I guess that brings up a really good point. If I take the lesson out of that, if you want to call it that for businesses is for the temptation is to try and be all things to all people, right?
Edward Zia: Yes.
Kym Heffernan: I think that’s … and as you said catered away minority who are not your core customers. What are you worried about? It just unfriend them, block them on Facebook or whatever you need to do to get rid of them. They’re not your core target. Then be hard nosed about that. It’s a bit like Linkedin.
Kym Heffernan: I’m not sure about you, but I’ve probably made a mistake on Linkedin and connecting with everyone who moves. Now I’m sort of really looking at that much more critically and saying, do I really want to be connected with that person?
Edward Zia: Exactly. It’s really important. The trick is and this is what’s really awesome. The trick is knowing exactly who you’re after and just going after those people. So, in terms of business networking is if I’m talking to someone at a business networking event, whether they’re a potential client or not, if we’re getting along great, I’ll talk to them. That we could become friends or whatever, right? But let’s say I’m talking to someone who’s not going well, I’ll diplomatically get out of the conversation as quickly as possible.
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: You know and if that’s-
Kym Heffernan: Can I ask you a question then? How do you get out of a conversation as diplomatic as possible? I struggled with this. Tell me how you go about doing that.
Edward Zia: Everyone does and it’s absolutely awesome that you struggled with it. Everyone struggles with it. Even I did at the start. What I’ll do is I’ll use my favourite technique it’s called stonewalling.
Kym Heffernan: Right.
Edward Zia: You know what stonewalling is?
Kym Heffernan: Yeah. Not saying anything? No. They explain stonewalling to me. Hello.
Edward Zia: That stonewalling.
Kym Heffernan: I felt a [inaudible 00:28:41]. Very good demonstration. I love. I love demonstrations.
Edward Zia: There is this stonewalling, when you stonewall someone, which is just funny, right? Stonewalling is basically you just go quiet. You just let the conversation just die. Right?
Kym Heffernan: And there’s nothing like that awkward silence. Right?
Edward Zia: Yeah. I’ll just sit there and shut the hell up. Eventually they go, well, it was great talking to you and I’m like, awesome. Talk to you later. Bye. Or we might-
Kym Heffernan: I love it. I love it. I Absolutely love it.
Edward Zia: [inaudible 00:29:14] reasons let’s say someone’s being mean to me, right? And I’m not happy with them, right? I suppose it depends. Let’s say someone’s actually really nice and they’re cool, but I just need to move on, I’ll say and let’s say they’re really cool, but I need to stop. I need to move on. Right? Even though I think they cool, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yeah,
Edward Zia: I’ll say … Let’s say I’m talking to you right? And it’s like, I think you’re a great guy, but then there’s a client over the current side. Hey Kim, I might say, Hey Kim, great talking to you. I need to like freeze. I know you were friends, right? I’ll just say to you, great talking to you I to move on and talk to such and such. You can sure Ed. Awesome. Right? But let’s say I don’t know someone say, hey, thanks for talking, really appreciate it. I need to keep moving. So, I’ll talk to you later. Fine, no one cares.
Kym Heffernan: You’re at a networking event, right? It’s almost about being embarrassed about it, isn’t it? I think that’s the problem. You need to just take that personal feeling away from it if you want.
Edward Zia: Yeah, and the blade cuts both ways too. Let’s say someone stonewalls me …lets say hey I have to keep moving. I’ve actually had an interesting … Didn’t go well for this person because messing with me is usually not a good idea. Right? Usually doesn’t go very- I’ve been messed with by everyone. No one has been messed with as much as me. Right? I’m a hardened nut job these days, right?-
Kym Heffernan: So you’ve seen them. You’ve seen them all.
Edward Zia: After all the crap I’ve been through my life, I’ve got a very short tolerance. When people mess with me, they don’t do that well. It doesn’t go well for them. But for example, I was also at a networking event. It was actually, I think it was about primary management or something. Anyway, what happened was the person wasn’t being very nice to me and then I sort of wound up the conversation and they got really offended and went off their head at me, right?
Edward Zia: I was at a chamber event and I said look buddy, you need to chill out. It’s not that bad or I basically said something like that. Because not being around is being mean to me. Right? But you know, to me it’s sort of like … and the opposite is true too. So when I’m talking to someone, right? I’m also being mindful whether I’m wasting their time or not.
Edward Zia: If I’m talking to someone and I’m wasting their time, I actually don’t want to talk to them because I respect they’re there to make money too. You know what I mean? So, the blade cuts both ways. That’s just one of the big points I want to make.
Kym Heffernan: That’s a really good point. So if you see someone looking around the room trying to find someone better, you probably just missed a bail out of that situation.
Edward Zia: Yeah. Let’s say I’m talking to someone and I can tell they don’t want to talk to him anymore. Right?
Kym Heffernan: Yep.
Edward Zia: Awesome. You know awesome. I will be, hey man, good talking to you it will be our thing, said I’ll talk to you later. Done. That’s it.
Kym Heffernan: So break up with them before they break up with you?
Edward Zia: Exactly. It answers what your going to be mindful of as well, because … again, this is the point that I’m making [inaudible 00:32:01] to everyone. This is … just drives me insane. People go to networking events and they just talked to their friends all night. That’s just ridiculous, just go home. You’re just dumb, right?
Kym Heffernan: Or call them on the phone. Don’t pay the 40 bucks or whatever the cost to go. Just meet up with your mate for a coffee or beer.
Edward Zia: Yeah. That all frustrates me so what I’ll do is, and I’ll say this to my clients all the time. They always … I love my clients, but sometimes they drive me insane. They only drives me insane because my love for them drives me insane. Right? Whereas I’ll [inaudible 00:32:30] the clients and then they’ll start hanging out with each other. I’m like, what the hell are you guys doing? Go Network. Go talk to someone, don’t do this.
Kym Heffernan: Go meet people.
Edward Zia: Yeah, like you want more clients and now you’re not talking to … You don’t go to a chamber event and hang out with your friends. It’s just daft. Right? But I get why people are doing it, they’re nervous. It’s a survival mechanism. I got all that, but it’s just very bad behaviour you got to stay out of.
Kym Heffernan: Or just something I think you need to be mindful of. When you’re sitting down with clients and they’re telling you about that networking experience, tell me what sort of questions you ask them? How do you hope to get better at networking I guess is what I’m after? What do you say to them? What questions do you get to self value how they went out? What do you do in that area?
Edward Zia: How do I … how do we value networking? Well first let’s say a client goes to the chamber and I speak to them the next day, I heard you go to chamber event, its like right. My questions will be like, how many people did you meet? How many meetings did you get? Have you rung up everyone? Have you added [inaudible 00:33:31]. They’re the basic questions I’ll ask.
Kym Heffernan: Right? So, the one of the questions people should ask after [inaudible 00:33:36]. Whether they’ve got you as a mentor or not. How many people did you meet? What was the second one?
Edward Zia: [inaudible 00:33:41] How many meetings did you get? How many good-
Kym Heffernan: And have you connected with them on Linkedin and have you followed them up?
Edward Zia: Yeah, because at the end of the day, right? What’s important with business network is getting meetings. That what that’s critical. You have to get meetings, right? You must get meetings. That’s what’s all about.
Kym Heffernan: That’s, that’s a really good point. I think a lot of people, not just for networking, I see it with a… I’ve got a website inquiry. It doesn’t mean that’s a sale. What is the logical next step in the sales process? We come back to again, right? The logical next step is yeah, you meet with them and you asses if it’s a good fit for both of you, right? It’s not just are they a good fit for you, are you a good fit for them?
Edward Zia: Exactly, like how many meetings did you get? The way I tend to look at it though and I’ve actually changed a lot in this view. I’ve actually really gone more liberal in this view. I used to be a bit too… I’ve actually softened up in some senses I’ve hardened up in some senses, I’ve actually softened up.
Edward Zia: I used to be very much, well, is it are they a potential client? Is this a good meeting? blah, blah, blah, blah. Well now not like that at all. Now I’m more like the sort of guy where it’s sort of like, if I meet someone cool, even if they’re not gonna be a potential client, I’ll meet up with them anyway because you got to think beyond that. Let’s say I meet someone at an event who is just really cool, right?
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: And there’s no way they’re going to be a potential client. I’m still meet up for coffee or lunch anyway because they’re a new friend. We have a better refer work to each other and they’re just a cool person. I just want to get to know it’s cool. When I go to networking events, it’s I’m also connecting with influencers as well as potential customers. So, a friend who’s well connected, they can be … they can refer you lots of work and vice versa as well. It’s great.
Kym Heffernan: Absolutely. Or yeah, it’s something new that you learn or whatever it might be. I just love meeting people and getting out there and learning more about what’s happening. On cell phones we’re caught around little ivory tower sometimes as well.
Edward Zia: Exactly, So yeah, it seems there different ways of playing it, but the thing that I love totally, and this is what totally works for me, is that you know, go out there and meet lots of people, meet the right people, but get meetings. What I do is this… I always say to people, you want to get at least one meeting per networking event. If you do that, you’re going to do really well.
Kym Heffernan: Yup and I guess it depends on how do you find the right event. You go to events, right? How do you run your practise.
Edward Zia: I’ll make it easy for people. Just go do your stuff at Well’s Business Chamber. Right?
Kym Heffernan: Well that’s true they got everyone. How many people do they have at that event? And if you’re in the city, how many people do they get at their events?
Edward Zia: Oh, that’s a great question. So a bit of trivia there within the chamber…the New South Wales is actually the biggest chamber in Australia.
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: They got over 22000 members. Tell me a place that’s bigger, tell me the place that’s got more members, right? The biggest business chambers in Australia, which makes sense it’s the biggest state in Australia so you kind of expect that, right? Of course it would be. And also too, what’s really cool about New South Wales Business Chamber is that their events, you get about 300 to 400 people per event.
Kym Heffernan: Yeah.
Edward Zia: Yeah, and they’re all great people like New South Whales. What I say to people is like for example, even in the wild, right? Even in like awesome regional towns, you always have business chambers. So, what I say to people is the first place to go is your local business chamber. Just start there.
Kym Heffernan: Yup. Because your gonna have a diverse group of people there, right. It gives you a chance to speak to a whole lot of different people. Who are both influencers and referrers possibly but also potential clients.
Edward Zia: Exactly.
Kym Heffernan: Did you often hear people say, oh look I don’t like going to near networking events. Its full of people who…there’s no real business there but they want to make a sale on the spot. It doesn’t work that way.
Edward Zia: I use what’s called a … Do you know what a reverse argument is?
Kym Heffernan: No. I don’t. What is a reverse argument?
Edward Zia: It’s actually a negotiating tactic. Right? Have you ever studied professional negotiation? You ever studied professional negotiating?
Kym Heffernan: I did it as part of a course, but I’ve probably forgotten most of it to be honest with you.
Edward Zia: You probably know the same thing, but what a reversal tactic is that you … I’ll use just an example, Richard Branson, and this is how I justify business networking as reversal tactic. Richard Branson recommends, has written blogs on this. Google it, it’s all online. Richard Branson recommends that entrepreneurs should join the local business chamber. Right?
Kym Heffernan: Yup.
Edward Zia: So, if you agree with me, you actually know more than Richard Branson. You know what I’m talking about. Let’s say I say to someone … I know Richard Branson recommends the business chambers. He does it’s in writing. I could show the article. Just Google it, it’s there.
Edward Zia: Right? Let’s say I say to someone, you should go to business networking. No Ed business networking is dumb. Okay, cool so Richard Bronson’s a moron and you’re just way smarter, yeah? You get my argument? Why I’m arguing that point?
Kym Heffernan: Absolutely. It’s not you arguing with them. Yes. You’re saying to me you are smarter than Richard Branson. There is a logical answer to that, isn’t it?
Edward Zia: Yeah. It’s like, oh well, Richard Bronson’s a dumb ass and you’ll just awesome because we can see he’s a billionaire and he thinks business network … He’s a billionaire and he says, join your local business chamber. Okay, so if you ever disagree with that, you’re disagreeing with Richard Branson. That’s not an easy place to argue.
Kym Heffernan: I knew this was going to be a fantastic conversation. We’ve covered a hell of a lot ground here. From was it get woke, go broke, right through the Richard Branson, through the politics to the basics of Linkedin page, Facebook page, website sales process, networking. I knew it’d be a fantastic conversation. It certainly has been.
Edward Zia: How you see lefties you can’t forget about social justice warriors and crazy lefties. They always come up.
Kym Heffernan: I don’t know. There’s too many of them podcast listeners if they are. That’s fine. No problem with that.
Edward Zia: I will be dead if S.J.W is listening to your podcast. That’ll be awesome. I wouldn’t say goodbye. Don’t learn heart feelings.
Kym Heffernan: I’m sure their heart is in the right place. [inaudible 00:39:47]. If people want to connect with you Edward, find out more about what you do. What’s the best way to do that?
Edward Zia: Thanks Kym, you’re awesome. Please, anyone, feel free to add me on Facebook and Linkedin. Love to connect. If you just google my name, you’ll see my website. I absolutely love to connect and while I’ve got people here as well. If you’re listening, if you need help with your marketing strategy and thinking … I mean, how long have we known each other? We’ve known each other.
Kym Heffernan: I don’t know. I can’t remember back when Edward to be honest.
Edward Zia: [inaudible 00:40:21] like your view is Kym is a great guy. He’s a great guy. You can trust everything he says so if you aren’t working with Kim place, hire him. If you are working with Kim, please keep listening to him.
Kym Heffernan: And if you don’t hire Kym go and say [inaudible 00:40:38].
Edward Zia: You’re definitely a nicer guy broader appeal. I’m much more of an acquired taste.
Kym Heffernan: So …
Edward Zia: Please do that.
Kym Heffernan: [inaudible 00:40:50] political persuasions gratefully accepted sir. Edward, wonderful speaking to you. And that’s Edward Zia and Z.I.A for those people who don’t know how to spell Zia. It’s not that hard to spell. It’s very short name and unlike Heffernan. Thanks Edward for your time, you’ve got such wonderful insights and you work with so many people.
Kym Heffernan: It’s just wonderful to discuss it with you, rather than have that structure I think just to get people a whole lot of ideas to take on board and think about. And just how to get offline as well as online because online, as you say, it’s fantastic, but you need to connect with people in business to business officially, don’t you?
Kym Heffernan: Absolutely and the thing is, and this is what a lot of people don’t like talking about, but I’ll talk about. By the way, I love online. I’m a heavy Linkedin Facebook guy, right?
Edward Zia: Absolutely. Yeah.
Kym Heffernan: And I’m not some anti Internet weirdo of course I’m not right? But here’s the point and I asked this question, what is the fastest way to build a relationship with someone? What’s the fastest way?
Edward Zia: To meet them. To spend time with them.
Kym Heffernan: Yep. That’s … There is your answer. I’ll give you example. Trump holds rallies, doesn’t he? Face to face rallies.
Edward Zia: Yeah, cause they get the see him, meet him and see him in person.
Kym Heffernan: Yes. I can’t remember. I think Trump’s got what, 10 million followers on twitter, but he still holds face to place rallies.
Edward Zia: Yep. I’ve got 10 million followers why did they hold face to face. I’ll come to you, won’t they?
Kym Heffernan: Yeah, exactly and that’s to me the point is that a good … and you notice is that without sounding like Kym Heffernan, right? A good marketing strategy has multiple tiers to it, right? So for example, you have your online, you have your offline.
Kym Heffernan: We say you have your online worlds, you have your real world, you have a range of different strategies that work. For example, I’m really big into New South Wales business chamber, almost a really big on Linkedin. They’re two different channels and supporting each of them helps to become more successful.
Edward Zia: That’s a really important … a really great point to finish on. If you rely very heavily on one strategy to get and connect with customers what happens with strategy disappears overnight?
Kym Heffernan: Yeah. You did-
Edward Zia: Or changes.
Kym Heffernan: A good example is, you actually said it before when we were talking in the prelude to our podcast, but it’s like Facebook for example. Facebook-
Edward Zia: Yeah. Has changed.
Kym Heffernan: Has really gone to the dogs. Right? I’m not the only one saying that, right? Especially with how they are trying to screw everyone for more advertising by cutting back organic reach, right?
Edward Zia: Yup.
Kym Heffernan: They’ve made a lot of enemies and it has not been good. Now what’s interesting though with Linkedin is on the opposite, which is why I came back, but we’re the whole I suppose key point is there awesome Kym is that, a lot of people who relied on Facebook got totally slapped. Whereas I never got slapped because I was writing at Facebook and Linkedin. I was writing at Linkedin and real world and I run events and meet up and all this other stuff. So yeah, again, it’s completely the way it goes.
Edward Zia: It’s just risk diversification, which is probably not a marketing thing but it’s a business. You don’t want one client giving you all your business. You don’t want one channel giving you all your clients. Mate it’s been absolutely fantastic speaking to you [inaudible 00:43:53] and I really do appreciate your time and please people take the time to connect with Edward.
Edward Zia: Look at his contents and fantastic content out there and some fantastic ideas on today’s podcast. We’ll put all the notes as you [inaudible 00:44:06] follow the link so you connect with Edward. Thanks again mate. I appreciate your time.
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Marketing Show. We hope you got some practical effective tips and ideas so your organisation gets more prospects and nurture those prospects to becoming long term customers. Just a reminder, the show is sponsored by the Marketing Strategy Company who helped B2B organisations, develop winning marketing strategies and sales and marketing automation systems to turn their sales and marketing efforts into new customers and dollars, through their marketing.
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